For instance, Remington also sells 150gr load that produces velocities around 2,300 feet per second. Whether you're shooting a break-action, pump-action, or semiautomatic, Sign up for the Field & Stream newsletter and get the latest intelligence straight to your inbox. Ballistics Its a decent cartridge, but American hunters just wont flock to it. These bullets weigh 171 grains with a .348 caliber gas In addition to the semi-auto Remington Model 8 and 81, Remington also produced the Model 14 pump-action rifle chambered in the cartridge. It was predictable that the .356 Win. Included in that have been a whole bunch of deer, hogs and a bear or two. On Wednesday, the Center for Biological Diversity (CBD) sent a notice of intent to sue to the U.S. Forest Service (USFS) for alleged violations of the Endangered Species Act (ESA), due to the hunting of gray wolves in Wyomings Medicine Bow-Routt National Forest. Sadly, I cant find a single major gunmaker chambering this cartridge today. For .30-30, the same search produced 5,841 results. Most ammunition makers have a 200-grain load, and Remington also has a 150-grain load with a muzzle velocity of 2300 f.p.s. History [ edit] Winchester introduced the .351 SL in the Winchester Model 1907 self-loading rifle as a replacement for the Winchester Model 1905 and the .35 SL. The old timers that designed big cartridges like the 35 Remington knew what it took to kill big game like elk and moose not to mention deer in brush along river banks. If you match the bullet to the game, this is one of the all-time great hunting cartridges. The .35 Remington uses the 180- and 200-grain .358caliber bullets, and while light-for-caliber, they are effective at the ranges a .35 Remington is used, which is usually inside of 150 yards. The .243 Win. This could be the most frequently debated rifle cartridge matchup on the planet. S .Click for more info. The .35 Remington was one of a quartet of cartridges released by Remington in 1906, and it was chambered for the Remington Model 8 autoloading rifle. Sadly, my favorite bullet diameter, the .35 caliber, doesnt even rate a blip on the American shooters radar screen. It was introduced in the bolt-action Model 70 in which it was trustworthy, but boring. For a more detailed discussion on .35 Remington hunting ammunition, read this article: Best .35 Remington Ammo For Hunting Deer, Bear & Other Big Game. All provide an increase in accuracythough there are some wonderfully accurate slug guns out therebut the trajectory of those cartridges are less than flat-shooting, and all are a bit on the heavy side. Due in part to this rounds greater popularity and in part to the R&D surrounding .30-caliber pills, the .30-30 can be loaded with far more advanced projectiles. The 600 Magnum suffered from a barrel that was too short at 18 inches. In a modern bolt-action rifle, hand loaders can achieve velocities of 2,400 fps with a 200-grain bullet, making the .35 Rem. Heres how to avoid the poseurs and choose the right one. Of the two, which serves the hunter better? The company has chambered several rifles in the cartridge including models in bolt-action, pump-action and semi-automatic. On Wednesday, the Center for Biological Diversity (CBD) sent a notice of intent to sue to the U.S. Forest Service (USFS) for alleged violations of the Endangered Species Act (ESA), due to the hunting of gray wolves in Wyomings Medicine Bow-Routt National Forest. Karl Brauneis, Forester, Lander, Wyoming, Also shooting a 35 Remington from a model 600 Remington bolt action rifle and very seldom ever hear Mag. Access the newest seasons of MeatEater, save content, and join in discussions with the Crew and others in the MeatEater community. Mag. Remington continues to offer factory ammo, and its 200-grain factory load has a muzzle velocity of 2675 f.p.s., while the 250-grain loads muzzle velocity is 2400 f.p.s. The only rifles I can find in production are from Nosler, Remington and CVA. This is partly due to the wide availability of ammo and partly due to the cartridges extended reach. The .351 SL proved popular with police and security forces as the only chambering available in the model 1907, and was used by France in both world wars. Its simply a matter of velocity and ballistic coefficient; the 30-30 pushes the lighter and more aerodynamic 30-caliber bullet faster so it has a flatter trajectory. Mag..404 Jeffery vs. .416 Rigby.243 Winchester vs. 6mm Creedmoor.300 PRC vs. .300 Win. Registration on or use of this site constitutes acceptance of our Terms of Service. One shot is all it took. Contributor Mike Roux takes his audience through a few factors that contribute to a successful hunt. "Winchester Model 07 Self-Loading .351 Caliber: Its Past and Its Future with Modern Brass, Bullets and Powders" (2011) Speckin, Leonard pp 68-70, "Winchester Model 07 Self-Loading .351 Caliber: Its Past and Its Future with Modern Brass, Bullets and Powders" (2011) Speckin, Leonard pp 88-96, Last edited on 25 February 2023, at 22:24, ".351 Winchester Self-Loading (.351 WSL, .351 SL)", https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=.351_Winchester_Self-Loading&oldid=1141606901, This page was last edited on 25 February 2023, at 22:24. On the other hand, the 200-grain LEVERevolution .35 Remington load will drop 17 inches with the same 200-yard zero. In 1987 Remington made an honest cartridge out of the .35 Whelen. It was not designed for a lever-action rifle. Ill bet its been awhile since those cartridges have been seen in a hunting camp. its all about money. Winchester offered .351 WSL factory loads loaded with 180 There have been many others, such as the .35-30 Maynard (both in the 1865 and the 1882 versions) and .35-40 Maynard. Naturally, this resulted in performance compromises and the .351 WSL is not nearly as powerful as the .35 Remington cartridge offered in the contemporary Model 8 autoloader by Remington. The .25 Rem., .30 Rem. .30-30 Win. Instead, it was first chambered in Remington's Model 8 auto-loading rifle. The muzzle velocity was Now, in this comparison, I will freely admit that the .35 Remington is not legal for those areas for which the 350 Legend was designed, as the .35 Remington is a bottle-necked cartridge, but there has been quite a bit of rumbling among those hunters who appreciate the short to mid-range cartridges, about whether or not the switch to the new cartridge is worthwhile. They include both the AccuBond and the Partition 225-grain bullets with a muzzle velocity of 2800 f.p.s. If you don't intend to hunt beyond 200Yards, save you money keep your 35 Rem in a Marlin platform and scope it with a Leupold. In a modern bolt-action rifle, hand loaders can achieve velocities of 2,400 fps with a 200-grain bullet, making the .35 Rem. From 100 yards it was tracked with 1861 foot-pounds of awesome power. Deriving its name from a combination of the caliber and the powder charge (.30 caliber, 30 grains of powder) the .30-30 was introduced in 1895, in the John Browning-designed Model 1894 Winchester. Spl. The Remington Model 600 Magnum rifle, along with the cartridge it birthed, was just such a product. Heres what you need to know about hunting with the 35 Rem today. My mom made the best elk pot roast, Outstanding article. The .35 Remington was extremely effective in that role. If you were to vote for the .30-30 Winchester based on its higher Sectional Density valuesthe 170-grain .308 bullet has an S.D. Especially when used in handy, quick pointing rifles such as the Marlin 336, the .35 Remington really comes into its own when used in thick cover. Enter the 350 Legend. That load actually produced 2825 f.p.s. Additionally, I recorded an entire podcast episode on this exact subject. Ohio and southern Michigan are just two examples of areas where the shotgun slug has been replaced by straight-walled cartridges like the .45-70 Government, .444 Marlin and, more recently, the .450 Bushmaster. Ill end with this idea: irrespective of whether you like the 350 Legend or not, Im glad to see that Winchester took the needs of those Midwestern deer hunters into consideration, and developed a cartridge just for them. The 200 grain bullet has an advertised muzzle velocity of 2,225 feet per second and a muzzle energy of 2,198 foot pounds. Something to think about if you really want a .348 Winchester based cartridge. Read on for his take on this Thai-inspired fusion dish. Main Image: 3035-5: Marlins model 336 is one of the few rifles available in both .30/30 Winchester and .35 Remington. The .351 Winchester Self-Loading (also called .351 SL or .351 WSL) is an American rifle cartridge designed in 1906. Neither produce much felt recoil, which makes them perfect for lighter rifles and newer hunters. And, if youre going after elk- or moose-sized game, or are maybe afraid you might have to shoot it out with a brown bear, youll appreciate that bigger and heavier bullet. It was not designed for a lever-action rifle. hits a little harder, but only clocks in at 13 ft.-lbs. bullet than the .35 Remington. The .35 Remington has proven itself for almost a century as a reliable short-range woods cartridge for medium-sized game such as deer and black bear. The rim diameter is .407" and the head diameter is .380". Copyright 2023 Big Game Hunting Adventures LLC | All Rights Reserved. The original .35 Remington loadgenerated over 1,900 foot pounds of energy and quickly became a favorite among American hunters. As Barnes puts it, the .35 Rem. Out west and the .30/30 is the king. But theres a reason the .30-30 has been around for the last 126 years. .30-30 Win, .35 Rem, .351 WSL, a.o., sizes. Commonly known as the Model 07, the Model 1907 rifle was also popular for law enforcement use. Mag. figure of .223eId have to agree with you as well. This means I will earn a small commission (at no extra cost to you) if you make a purchase. It may not be high speed or low drag, but its got more than enough juice to get the job done. Its said that the French used it in World War I, but it probably didnt see much action. Another outstanding feature is that the cartridge will smoothly feed through the 336 action whereas the 45/70 cartridge can be very difficult. The elder statesman of the deer woods, the .30-30 Win. I give the edge to the apparently timeless .30-30 Winchester for the availability alone; there are dozens of factory loads to choose from, and being .30-caliber is never a bad thing. necked up to .35 caliber. The best answer to the question might be to just get one of each. Soon after, the classic 150- and 170-grain loads took root, and due to the tubular magazines of so many popular rifles, round nose bullets were employed. Of the four rifle cartridges introduced with the Remington Model 8, the .35 Remington was by far the most popular and is the only one still in production. .30-30 Win. Versatility into the deer woods, and I pine for what could have been. and is probably a better deer and black bear cartridge at woods ranges than the more popular .30-30 Win. is still with us as well. I own several rifles in this cartridge and all my .35 Whelen rifles are accurate. in 1957 and .351 ammunition was offered for several years after that. The .30/30s dominance as the king of lever-cartridges is also clear when you look at available ammunition. vs. .458 Lott, Head to Head: .26 Nosler vs. 6.5-300 Weatherby Magnum, Head to Head: .22-250 Remington vs. .220 Swift, Fiocchi USA Appoints David Blenker As New CEO After Anthony Acitellis Retirement | An NRA Shooting Sports Journal, Behind the Bullet: .17 HMR | An Official Journal Of The NRA, 7 Great Lightweight Hunting Rifles | An Official Journal Of The NRA, Product Preview: 7th Edition Ammo Encyclopedia | An Official Journal Of The NRA, New for 2023: Savage Arms Impulse Driven Hunter, First Look: ZeroTech Thrive HD Binoculars | An Official Journal Of The NRA, Launching 2023: KelTec R50 Rifle | NRA Family, New For 2023: Glock 47 MOS | An Official Journal Of The NRA, 11 New Ammo Options For 2023 | An Official Journal Of The NRA, #SundayGunday: Savage Arms 110 PCS | An Official Journal Of The NRA, #SundayGunday: Davidson's Winchester Model 1895 Texas Ranger's Edition | An Official Journal Of The NRA, #SundayGunday: Colt King Cobra Target .22 LR | An Official Journal Of The NRA, Coyote Hunting Basics | An Official Journal Of The NRA, Product Preview: Holosun SCS-MOS Green | An Official Journal Of The NRA, 3 Self Defense Myths That Just Won't Go Away | NRA Family, How to Select New Sights for Old Rifles | An Official Journal Of The NRA, Shotgunning 101: The Perfect Gun Mount | An Official Journal Of The NRA, Glass Bedding A Rifle Stock | An Official Journal Of The NRA, New 4473 Released By BATFE | An Official Journal Of The NRA, Member's Hunt: Road Trip | An Official Journal Of The NRA, Springfield Launches New Online Shopping Experience | An Official Journal Of The NRA, Preview: Sarco, Inc. 2nd Amendment Pint Glass | An Official Journal Of The NRA, Fiocchi: Ammunition With Italian Flair | An Official Journal Of The NRA, Glocks MOS pistol/optic mounting interface, Top 4 Ways to Carry a Binocular | NRA Family, New for 2023: Burris Veracity PH Hunting Rifle Scope | An Official Journal Of The NRA, Preview: Mission First Tactical 24-oz. The .358 Norma Mag. The .30-30 only produces about 10 foot-pounds (ft.-lbs.) On the other hand, the hardest hitting 35 Remington load is the 220-grain Heavy load from Buffalo Bore. clearly more powerful than the .30-30. Barnes has a Vor-TX load with a 180-grain TSX bullet and a muzzle velocity of 2900 f.p.s. The .35 Remington (8.9 x 49 mm) is the only remaining cartridge from Remington's lineup of medium-power rimless cartridges still in commercial production. The .35 Rem. Along with the rifle, they introduced four new rimless cartridges: the .25 Remington, the .30 Remington, the .32 Remington, and the .35 Remington. It is believed that. This Mossberg 26B bolt-action rifle in .22 caliber belonged to my dad, Robert Elmo Babington. If you own a .270, your buddy probably owns a .30-06. G. Joined: Feb 2010. The Big Game Hunting Blog is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com, Amazon.co.uk, Amazon.ca, Amazon.com.au, and other Amazon stores worldwide. The .350 Rem. Chiefly because of the handy Winchester '07 carbine, the In particular, the .35 Remington offers a marked advantage over the .30-30 Winchester when hunting very large, tough, and/or dangerous game like moose and grizzly bear. figure of .256 versus the 200-grain .358s S.D. remains in production. Ballistics vs. .35 Rem. With a 171 grain cast lead bullet and IMR 4227 powder, the Cartridge overall length is 1.90". Finally, Winchester had developed an autoloader powerful enough to truly be used on North American big game. We offer rifle ammo in a number of calibers including 223 REMINGTON, 30 CARBINE, 300 WIN MAG, 307 WIN, 308 WIN, 375 WINCHESTER, 5.45 X 39MM, 7X64MM and more. In 2022, he was named as the brands Shooting Editor. That version is in some dispute, with evidence that Whelen himself developed the cartridge or at least worked with Howe on its development. Mag. crying, My kingdom for a rifle.. 1.380" long that uses small rifle primers. The .35 Remington load using the 150-grain Core-Lokt obtains just about the same muzzle velocity, with a bullet having a lower B.C. The most common load is a 200gr round nose soft point traveling between 2,000 and 2,100 feet per second. All rights reserved. The straight-wall, rimless design requires that the cartridge headspaces off of the case mouthmuch like a .45 ACP or 9mm Lugerbut the use of spitzer bullets certainly gives an advantage out beyond the 100-yard mark. the standard .357"-.358" used by modern .35 caliber cartridges. has "far better knockddown power than the .30-30 under any conditions and at any range." Introduced in 1906, it was originally chambered for the Remington Model 8 semi-automatic rifle in 1908. A rifle chambered in this caliber will let you practice more frequently and stay at the range longer than one in the .35 Rem. I double lunged a buck with a 225gr. If youd rather listen than read, click the appropriate link below to listen to this episode on your preferred podcasting service. Which is the more useful cartridge? The new 350 Legend has the benefit of modern engineering, and the fact that it wasnt designed specifically for a tubular magazine. The 35 Remington also uses a bullet about 18% heavier and with over 35% more frontal surface area (.1007 vs .0745 square inches). and the 6.5 mm Rem. The Winchester 351 self-loading rifle is amazing, and unique enough to add true value to your gun colle. Perhaps thats why it has survived. At 300 yds., the .358 Norma impacts only 0.96" lower than the .300 Win. One of the oldest and most popular cartridges of all time, the .30-30 Winchester, was released in 1895 and has been bringing down all manner of game ever since. Just $1 per month . Comparatively, the 35 Remington load that hits hardest is the 220-grain "Heavy" by Buffalo Bore. The longevity of both cartridges speaks to their efficacy on game, and their compatibility with short, light carbines makes them popular among hunters in thick brush. Mag., and I think thats the only current production rifle in that cartridge. The .358 Win. Both of these .35 Remington ammo choices offer slight improvements over typical factory loads. At ranges less than 100 yards, likewhen hunting whitetail deeror black bear in thick cover,the cartridge excels and is absolutely deadly on big game. was included in that party is a mystery, as it had no Winchester counterpart. As a result, the cartridge does not have a very flat trajectory. Theyre real deal hunting rifles honored and appreciated by those who hunt with their feet as opposed to feet-per-second. .351 cartridge enjoyed a rather long production life. Released in 2019, the Legend was designed for use in states that restrict deer hunters to straight-wall cartridges and was billed as the fastest such cartridge currently in production. Depending on the load, 150 yards may be a better estimate. I remember in Washington in the early 70s my older brother pulled up in his truck with the biggest elk Id ever seen. The range of bullet weights available (not to mention the diameter of each cartridge) put the .30-30 and .35 Rem. Realistically, the maximum effective range for the .35 Remington for most shooters is 200 yards. Those same characteristics that made the .35 Remington such an effective choice on really large animals during the 20th Century still ring true today. The .351 Winchester Self-Loading (.351 WSL, .351 SL). The exception to that rule is Hornadys LeveRevolution ammo line, which uses a pliable tip on a spitzer bullet to afford a much flatter trajectory in both cartridges. The Creedmoor is the hottest cartridge on the planet. Copyright 2009, 2013 by Chuck Hawks. In rifle cartridges, we usually take the safe route and .30-caliber has emerged as the American shooters choice. As many hunters know, the Remington Model 600 carbine, which was introduced in 1964, was one of the first short, light, bolt-action rifles to find success with deer hunters. However, they are high pressure loads and should only be used in modern firearms, such as the Marlin 336, that are in good condition. Sure, we experiment a bit with other bore sizes, but in the end it always comes back to the .30 caliber. The Model 07 was discontinued I can Winchesters 160-grain Power Max gives very similar performance, though with a bonded-core hollowpoint bullet. Accuracy was always regarded as fair at best from Model 07 carbines. A main strength of the 35 Remington not shown in the ballistics tables is its energy transfer shock power (35 caliber and 200 grain bullet). He gave me 200 trade in on the 35 whelen barrel and the 358 was 295 plus shipping. .30-30 Win. Bottles & 12-oz. The 223 Remington has an overall length of 2.26 and uses a 1.76 long case. The muzzle velocity was stated to be 1850 fps and the muzzle energy 1370 ft. lbs. vs. .458 Lott7mm Rem. However, even after 123 years on the market, the .30-30 Winchester remains the king of medium caliber lever guns; it has been in the top ten selling cartridges for Federal Premium to this day, and with millions of rifles out there chambered for the cartridge, that will probably be a fact decades from now. Keep in mind that most hunting ammunition currently sells for an average of $28 to $32 per box. For me, that puts it over the top. The result was the .350 Legend. It is very accurate, easy to carry and fast on the target. Looking for previous installments of our "Head to Head" series? Dont be fooled by its somewhat anemic looking ballistics on paper when compared to newer cartridges sporting fancy pointed tips and blazing fast velocities. Because the Ruger #1 will use pointed bullets, there are more suitable in .35 caliber than .348. But, there is an issue: It seems the .35 Remington ammunition has begun to fade away. vs. .300 WSM.223 Remington vs. .22-250 Remington. Can Coolers | An Official Journal Of The NRA, Find More Great NRA Publications Perfect For Every Interest, Discover Everything That The NRA Has To Offer. Hornady also produces their LEVERevolution line of ammunition, which uses their Flex Tip Expanding (FTX) bullet. Likewise, the 200-grain LEVERevolution .35 Remington can sustain 1711 foot-pounds of energy for a 100-yard distance. Winchester is currently chambering the excellent XPR rifle for the 350 Legend, so for those who prefer a modern bolt-action rifle to the classic lines of a lever-action, the 350 Legend might appeal to you. of energy at 200 yards, dropping 7.5 inches when using a 100-yard zero.